How does conditionnal participation work ?

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    Raziel

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    How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by Raziel on Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:04 pm

    I created this topic because the other one has been locked, and it will be more appropriated here to talk about what was said in this thread : http://ilforums.forumotion.com/t788p120-w1-kc-341-336-cb (not concerning the penalty)

    The main idea is in my very last post :





    Raziel wrote:" I have another question, who nominate players to be watched and voted into the council, in order to put them on the conditional list ?
    Because anyway, I think it's a bad idea to do that for players when there is no suspicious proof ( videos ).

    Let’s take an example : what if I ask to council to vote for an unknown player from the major part of the community, from a small clan, which plays in division 18, which nobody cares about and doesn't look who is playing in ? This player is a real hacker, but atm he can't be caught on a video to prove it. So he is a real hacker, but nobody knows him. So the council who didn't know anything about him will vote “no” because they don't have any opinion about him. But if some council members did their job in a better way, wanting to get to know him they could ask to friends what do they know about him, if they like him, etc. They will say he doesn't hack, except if they have some personal issues with him or are hater from his team, then in this case they will say he probably hacks.

    What I’m trying to explain is : the way this list is done can't be good, because it's only from biased/personal opinion and not from facts ( proves, videos, or anything who is really true ). The votes “yes” and “no" are only here for what you really think of this player. So it can only be an error to apply a rule or make a list based on this.

    If players think someone is hacking, and there is nothing against him and he is not in the conditional list, then it's you who have to record what you will see and show to the community what is suspicious or what you think is hack. Until that, you can't oblige a player to prove he is not hacking, but you can ask him and he can accept or not. He can also prove by himself he is not hacking if it's a problem for him being accused.

    I give you another example from IRL ( because I know a lot of people like comparing video games’ rules to IRL rules :p ) : if you think your neighbor killed someone and still have the body in his house ( because some of your other neighbors told you that ), you can't go to the police and oblige him to open his house and to prove he has no dead body there, without any proof of what you’re saying.

    Well, I hope you all now understand what I meant. And I hope all players concerned who have been put on that list because of "suspicions", will be removed. "
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    Baseh

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    Re: How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by Baseh on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:31 am

    Hi, My opinion means nothing.


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    Raziel

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    Re: How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by Raziel on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:47 am

    so lot participation from staff/admin there...
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    Evoker

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    Re: How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by Evoker on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:00 pm

    Never thought I'd say that, but I agree fully with Raziel.
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    ★〃れëøs〃☆

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    Re: How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by ★〃れëøs〃☆ on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:24 pm

    hi


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    EirikN
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    Re: How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by EirikN on Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:19 pm

    Thanks for redirecting me here from the other thread Raziel, didn't really see this.

    I think I get the general jist of what you are saying. If I'm correct, you're discussing the topic of council bias and whether the council goes too far in putting ____ and _____ on the conditional participation list solely because of their scores in wars. On top of that, I believe you pointed out how council is indifferent about the players in lower divisions.

    Regarding the first situation, it is very hard to gather a council that has very little bias. Every single person has some extent of bias, and if one is to deny that fact, that in itself is ignorant of reality. The league has gone to the extent it has in conditional so it can get cases out of the way. If people score relatively the same after conditional they will be taken off it after the end of the season most likely. On the other hand, if we are given reason to keep them on conditional (e.g: lower points consistently) then they are most likely going to continue being on conditional.

    As for lower division players, there is a good point to be made about there being a sort of indifference towards those players. I'll be sure to bring up the idea of monitoring them more regardless if that was part of your point in this message or not.
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    Raziel

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    Re: How does conditionnal participation work ?

    Post by Raziel on Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:43 pm

    well it was not exactly what I tried to explain you, it's more : review the condition of beeing part of the conditional list.
    only beeing suspected by somes personn without anything more, should not be one.

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