[W1] AR 313-294 Flow

How is my point wrong, when that response is completely irrelevant to what I said in all aspects, and doesn't even address anything I mentioned? You should read it again.

flc wrote:statistically the chance of cobra getting 5 shocks in 9th at 30 seconds is about one in a hundred thousand (five 7.5% chances in 12 races). if the bill was being held, the chance is about 9.2%, so it'd be more like one in ninety thousand.

as a number of one-in-a-very-large-number things have happened to me in my time playing mkw (six bombs in a row in 3rd, 4th and 5th, for example, which is a chance of about one in a hundred million), it's hard to outright say "this guy got good luck and therefore hacks"

this is the first time this has happened with cobra on conditionals; if it happens again, then we can start talking about hacks.

naturally he's not going to do it again, he did it here to prove a point about how he can hack while streaming startup (because he didn't follow the conditional rules)

^

Plus now that he knows the whole community is suspicious of him, he will know not to do it again. (If he did hack this time which I'm 100% sure about but I can't state my personal belief as a real fact).

It was also 6 shocks in 9th, and in 5 races (Straight), not 12.

Now I know who "Blatant Hackers" were. o:

it was 6o7 shocks in 9 after 6 races i was in a call with 7 other guys watching stream and said same blatan.If this count as a win for Ar this league is corrupt also this hacked shocks in 9 changed the whole war since Flow Frontrun and got all good positions before whole ar doged the hacked shocks.Nice follow conditionals rule Cobra

Javo. wrote:
This is why in my streams I always show (through Skype video call) that I'm using my original disc, no sd card and USB, turn Wii on and off 2 times and load normally through the disc channel. This is the one and only way to prove you're legit unless you burn an iso and somewhere on earth get a disc art color machine NOVA STYLE; as far as I know there is no way to store that kind of code data to the wii's internal hard drive so you'd be set.

Quoted for emphasis. Although this way of conditionals is a utopian idea since half of the community wouldn't be able to play the game if needed a disc due to all these custom tracks, textures, CTs, other things as well as people not being able to take care of their discs. All of these third party things are being updated and created daily with new information and new ways to get around things. There are probably ways people can hack that haven't even been addressed. All it takes is one person who is smart with computers and has a drive to cheat.

Cobra wrote:

Bounty wrote:Should just be a reminder that there was only competitive bagging for 10 races in this war, not 12.

The first races were just blatant, after that it wasn't that bad. I got outplayed on rDKM, dkjp my backwards lines were far better than yours, I just got the bill. (You never seemed to pull that either except on tracks where it's just a bagging battle for 9th place shocks and people are standing still in stars). Probably also when you fell off on DDR driving back.

DDR (If you drove off with Bill ), BCWII, BC3 (because Seb), and rDKM (Because I hit in cube in 9th on accident and gave me the bill forcing you to get one box in 10th whereas you got shrooms in 10th) were the tracks I admit to being out bagged on. It's just heartbreaking when you for the first 5 races of a war, you're in 10th and pretty much right after 30 you see the opponent start driving forwards in 9th.

On DDR i got the bill and i outranned you since you got the bill too after mine and you didnt go backwards again rDKJP was your entire fault since i had the bill in lap 1 too and the only thing you had to do was to go backwards again and fell off with your bill in the reverse, this is actually what i did lap 1)
I know it's frustrating but yeah thats MKW Better luck next time.

Smile wrote:Hey Cobra, if I think everyone hacks. Why haven't I accused Shaun Tanney of hacking? Or Sphinx, or Sagar, or Frenchy, or Anto etc.? Also, you're doing what every cheater does, denying it. Why don't you just ignore this and the accusations, you'd look more believable. Too bad you're obvious as hell along with Sasuke.

You did it LOL You accused like every players of every clan of hacking.
Yeah i'm arguing because i don't like when people are saying wrong thing on me, go ahead and leave the community one more time please, you won't miss to anyone.

Haha, dumbass, I've never said those guys hack. Your cheating is obvious, pathetic you find it entertaining to know what item you'll get before even getting the box. Listen dude, I know you're cheating in this game to get compliments from people in this community because you don't get them in real life. But this shit isn't even sincere compliments because you're using a cheating device in order to create the illusion that motivates these people to compliment you. How about get some self-esteem and learn to play fairly, then you'll have more fun and won't have to rely on compliments online to stay alive.

Of the time I've bagged, I've only gone for 9th place shocks because I felt the need to gamble it, due to the fact that the other bagger was able to get further behind in the course than me. I approached the boxes in 9th, with uncertainty, unsure of what the outcome of the match would've been. The way he went for shock in 9th, reeked of confidence and I'm rather baffled at how he easily he was able to obtain it, when no one was holding bill. Looking at the other streamers, I noticed a player (from his team) get bill right after Cobra had shock. I’m sure other baggers will understand what I mean with the confidence in bagging for shock in 9th. I’m also speaking in a baggers point of view, not on behalf of Flow. The entire war was just painful to watch and I felt traumatized after it finished. :s

Some matches you get very lucky with items, if hes guna keep doing this then i would start to get suspicious but not after one match
Whiners gotta whine

Nice win AR

And to be honest, I don't know why you guys are complaining, you wanted people in conditionals, everyone streamed his start-up, you guys confirmed start-up, EVEN if he didn't follow the exact rules, you're as guilty as him for not knowing the rules... It's easy to complain about that now, you could have easily asked him to re-do the manipulation BEFORE the war if you were not sure... w/e.

That's funny to watch monk (idk who he is, he was not playing the war, was he?), Jaws (existential problems FTW, what are you doing here btw?) and Bounty accusing Cobra of hacking after watching and confirming his conditional, by saying it was pre-recorded (which was proven it was not) and now that he bypassed the rules? Did we start such a drama when, during an IL war against KC last season, Yoshistar got 15 shocks when we only got one during the whole war? No. If people started a drama EVERYTIME the other clan was lucky, every thread would be 5 pages long.

You guys wanted us on conditionals, fine, we don't have any problem with that. But don't start to piss us off by accusing us of hacking now that we're streaming. Do you think Cobra is stupid enough to take the risk of being kicked from AR and banned for IL by streaming himself hacking? What was impossible in what he did? I'm waiting for an explanation. Is it impossible to get shocks in 9th? in 10th? You know as well as me that it is a random game.

Orangelink wrote:And to be honest, I don't know why you guys are complaining, you wanted people in conditionals, everyone streamed his start-up, you guys confirmed start-up, EVEN if he didn't follow the exact rules, you're as guilty as him for not knowing the rules... It's easy to complain about that now, you could have easily asked him to re-do the manipulation BEFORE the war if you were not sure... w/e.

That's funny to watch monk (idk who he is, he was not playing the war, was he?), Jaws (existential problems FTW, what are you doing here btw?) and Bounty accusing Cobra of hacking after watching and confirming his conditional, by saying it was pre-recorded (which was proven it was not) and now that he bypassed the rules? Did we start such a drama when, during an IL war against KC last season, Yoshistar got 15 shocks when we only got one during the whole war? No. If people started a drama EVERYTIME the other clan was lucky, every thread would be 5 pages long.

You guys wanted us on conditionals, fine, we don't have any problem with that. But don't start to piss us off by accusing us of hacking now that we're streaming. Do you think Cobra is stupid enough to take the risk of being kicked from AR and banned for IL by streaming himself hacking? What was impossible in what he did? I'm waiting for an explanation. Is it impossible to get shocks in 9th? in 10th? You know as well as me that it is a random game.

Oh yeah, Cobra is really going to be kicked for cheating, while you and Sasuke do the same, and I'm sure others in AR as well. You guys are all in on it, like most of these clans, allow teammates to cheat because they're your teammates. At least I was honest enough to air out my own teammate Lunar when I had him confess to hacking. You're one of the dirtiest clans at the moment, along with GTFO and inverted LOL.

Orangelink wrote:And to be honest, I don't know why you guys are complaining, you wanted people in conditionals, everyone streamed his start-up, you guys confirmed start-up, EVEN if he didn't follow the exact rules, you're as guilty as him for not knowing the rules... It's easy to complain about that now, you could have easily asked him to re-do the manipulation BEFORE the war if you were not sure... w/e. .

You're implying that I had any decision making and had any influence that I chose who was on conditionals and that I wanted a massive list with all of AR on it. And yes, I personally didn't watch Cobra's stream since I was talking with a clan member in PM and that my clan missed something that should've been led to a redo of the rule. Although, I personally believe that it's possible to cheat unless people stream with a video camera and load through the disc so that's irrelevant anyways in my case.

Orangelink wrote:That's funny to watch monk (idk who he is, he was not playing the war, was he?), Jaws (existential problems FTW, what are you doing here btw?) and Bounty accusing Cobra of hacking after watching and confirming his conditional, by saying it was pre-recorded (which was proven it was not) and now that he bypassed the rules? Did we start such a drama when, during an IL war against KC last season, Yoshistar got 15 shocks when we only got one during the whole war? No. If people started a drama EVERYTIME the other clan was lucky, every thread would be 5 pages long.

I can't speak for Jaws on this one, but I know Monk watched Cobra's stream and others who watched the stream are saying he was blatantly cheating and they got to see his racing first hand and live which was more than anyone in the war for Flow saw, so they should be allowed to express their opinions, especially since they are 3rd party point of views, so I don't know where you are going with this. And I assumed it was pre-recorded because I know he hacked in this war and that was the only reason I could think of, of how he could have snuck by the rule, and you proved to me that, that was not the case. However, now I've been informed by others of many multiple ways to get past it so my concern for his legitimacy came back.

Whether Yoshistar cheated in that war or not has nothing to do with this war. For the first time in my career, I'm convinced someone from the opposition hacked so I'm going to voice my opinion about it. Your teams decision whether to bring up Yoshistar or not has nothing to do with this match or Flow.

Orangelink wrote:You guys wanted us on conditionals, fine, we don't have any problem with that. But don't start to piss us off by accusing us of hacking now that we're streaming.

Again, I can't recall Flow ever creating the conditionals list, but if I'm wrong please enlighten me. Ironically, this is the first time myself and Flow has EVER thought of AR hacking, none of us thought you hacked in the past seasons we played so the fact we're accusing it now has nothing to do with the conditionals. Also, we only think Cobra hacked, not the rest of AR.

Orangelink wrote:Do you think Cobra is stupid enough to take the risk of being kicked from AR and banned for IL by streaming himself hacking?

Yes, I do.

Orangelink wrote:What was impossible in what he did? I'm waiting for an explanation. Is it impossible to get shocks in 9th? in 10th? You know as well as me that it is a random game.

It's not mathematically impossible, but many factors lead to it being obvious.

1. The fact he knew he was going to get the shock in 9th by the way he raced
2. His history is really bad with knowing how to bypass stream startups, being found as an alt for a random clan that was apparently hacking on purpose, has had extreme lag at multiple points in his career and has been suspicious in general in many people's eyes that I have talked to.
3. The fact he loaded with the SD card in the wii than claiming it's irrelevant to say that, that has no effect (I admit this one was Flow's fault).
4. Randomness can only go so far. Anyone who watched the stream that isn't affiliated with Cobra was laughing at how obvious it was. And there is no such things as 100% proof anymore, since with Guru's it's impossible to be caught unless you are a complete idiot or your finger slips. By following through with that, no one will ever get banned and all the cheaters will plague the community, this includes all the people that you personally think hack, as well as who AR thinks hacks.
I have a fifth point that someone mentioned to me on skype, but I have not investigated that scenario myself so I don't feel like I should be posting it here yet.


And as far as I'm concerned, myself and my clan have discussed our concern about Cobra's legitimacy in a rather mature way, which many clans would not have.

Smile wrote:

Orangelink wrote:And to be honest, I don't know why you guys are complaining, you wanted people in conditionals, everyone streamed his start-up, you guys confirmed start-up, EVEN if he didn't follow the exact rules, you're as guilty as him for not knowing the rules... It's easy to complain about that now, you could have easily asked him to re-do the manipulation BEFORE the war if you were not sure... w/e.

That's funny to watch monk (idk who he is, he was not playing the war, was he?), Jaws (existential problems FTW, what are you doing here btw?) and Bounty accusing Cobra of hacking after watching and confirming his conditional, by saying it was pre-recorded (which was proven it was not) and now that he bypassed the rules? Did we start such a drama when, during an IL war against KC last season, Yoshistar got 15 shocks when we only got one during the whole war? No. If people started a drama EVERYTIME the other clan was lucky, every thread would be 5 pages long.

You guys wanted us on conditionals, fine, we don't have any problem with that. But don't start to piss us off by accusing us of hacking now that we're streaming. Do you think Cobra is stupid enough to take the risk of being kicked from AR and banned for IL by streaming himself hacking? What was impossible in what he did? I'm waiting for an explanation. Is it impossible to get shocks in 9th? in 10th? You know as well as me that it is a random game.

Oh yeah, Cobra is really going to be kicked for cheating, while you and Sasuke do the same, and I'm sure others in AR as well. You guys are all in on it, like most of these clans, allow teammates to cheat because they're your teammates. At least I was honest enough to air out my own teammate Lunar when I had him confess to hacking. You're one of the dirtiest clans at the moment, along with GTFO and inverted LOL.

Think what you want, everyone knows that you're a paranoid, you're accusing people with no proofs, and the whole world is against you. Funny thing is, you can't even show us your startup, how can we be sure you don't hack? Actually you're thinking exactly like Dims did. I'm sure you're using hacks because you think that's normal and everyone does so.

Personally, I don't care being forced to play on conditional, I have nothing to hide.

I don't even know why I'm still talking to you, it's like talking to a very stupid wall.

And to Bounty: Then why was he not banned from the beginning. What you're trying to tell me is: "Conditional was useless". Well fine, then people who were on conditional for ages might have been hacking as well. I'm waiting for a solid proof that Cobra was hacking during this war. You're saying that he blatantly hacked? Then show me a SINGLE proof that he actually hacked and what he did was impossible. I'm not saying he wasn't lucky or suspicious. I'm just telling you it's irrelevant to accuse someone without a solid proof. "Look at the video" is not a proof. All I notice in the video is him showing his setup, AND the whole war, from the beginning, to the end. And as far as I know, you had to confirm everyone's conditional participation before the war. You did so, and I'll probably repeat myself, but you're as wrong as Cobra for not knowing the rules.

I actually did my own conditionals for this war.

I recorded using a camera and loaded through the disc. I did this in case anyone bitched that I wasn't on it, I will upload it tomorrow.

As for the whole world against me, all I see is AR denying it and the number of my skype pm's sky rocketing with people agreeing with me and laughing at Cobra's stream.

I don't care whether you care about being on conditionals, none of this conversation between us has anything to do with conditionals, nor does anyone in FLow think you cheat, so stop bringing up "people all hate AR so they put all on conditionals beacuse everyone thinks we cheat" act. I've said that has nothing to do with this but you can't seem to comprehend that, yet I'm the wall?

You are completely oblivious from this entire thread and everyone else around you, that I think you are not looking at a stupid wall, but rather looking at a mirror and seeing a stupid kid.

The first part of my message was directed to Jaws.

That's why there is a quote of him in my message.

I posted my post before you edited it, so it looked out of context. I will read what you posted towards me now.

ok im back got my popcorn now

Orangelink wrote:
And to Bounty: Then why was he not banned from the beginning. What you're trying to tell me is: "Conditional was useless". Well fine, then people who were on conditional for ages might have been hacking as well. I'm waiting for a solid proof that Cobra was hacking during this war. You're saying that he blatantly hacked? Then show me a SINGLE proof that he actually hacked and what he did was impossible. I'm not saying he wasn't lucky or suspicious. I'm just telling you it's irrelevant to accuse someone without a solid proof. "Look at the video" is not a proof. All I notice in the video is him showing his setup, AND the whole war, from the beginning, to the end. And as far as I know, you had to confirm everyone's conditional participation before the war. You did so, and I'll probably repeat myself, but you're as wrong as Cobra for not knowing the rules.

100% proof doesn't exist anymore in this community with the ways GURU works unless someone pushes the wrong button. So no real cheaters will ever be found. As for the whole conditionals thing, I've stated multiple times that I think people can still cheat with going through with it and that it is pointless unless they stream with a video camera, show no SD and load through a disc and not a third party. And I believe that many people on that list should not be able to play, I'm not sure why you are making connections between the way the league runs and my thoughts / ideas since I'm not even part of the staff and have 0 influence on anything that happens.

I guess what I should really say is that this game can not be taken seriously as a competitive game because it's IMPOSSIBLE to get the 100% proof of Guru's since the items cubes use a RNG and that can be abused w/o anyone ever being able to see it (unless every person does a way conditionals work). I personally refuse to believe that someone could randomly get a RNG that much in their favour in a really important match. I can guarantee if I drove confidently in 9th and got 6 shocks in 9th in 5 races (most of them at 30 seconds) you guys would've been all over me while personally insulting me and my clan, unless you would be too scared to get criticized like you were about Yoshistar.

There can't be 100% proof, because it doesn't exist. That's like saying that God is real because you can't disprove him or that god isn't real because you can't prove it. It's impossible to have a scientific answer to the question, the only way to address these kinds of problems is to objectively look at what is possible to look at and make an inference from it. This is what I did, and many other people and their inference resulted in being: Cobra hacked.

I really don't care about losing or trying to look good/bad publically, I just can not stand someone who has to cheat to win and denies it.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but I've never ever seen anything even near to this in my entire time playing even with watching wars between 2 clans whose line-ups have all been caught hacking with no conditionals (the kind that matters) being used.

There is absolutely no way Cobra hacked/Gurud, lets say he did Guru the shock, in that case Cobra would have pulled single shrooms in 9th or last IF Bounty pulled the shock in 9th or last, I don't think any hacker would take such a risk while streaming, cause that's how Gurus work, you get the item and if someone else already pulled it, you get that single shroom, Cobra was legitly bagging and pulling bills, trip shrooms, stars and goldens, now I don't think Cobra said : alright, I got shock in ninth first try Guru'ing it, lets do it another 6 times in a row (even at the end of MH he pulled a ninthplace shock, 3 in total that race, which is sick, yet no hacks) there is just no way a bagger would Guru the shock, also 'hacking' the shock is just way too risky for ftw hackers (2 shocks in play, the hacked and legit one, don't think any bagger would even consider hacking shock, you don't know if the other bagger already pulled it)

Cobra just got very very lucky with the shock this war, but this ain't hacks at all.

Fabe wrote:There is absolutely no way Cobra hacked/Gurud, lets say he did Guru the shock, in that case Cobra would have pulled single shrooms in 9th or last IF Bounty pulled the shock in 9th or last, I don't think any hacker would take such a risk while streaming, cause that's how Gurus work, you get the item and if someone else already pulled it, you get that single shroom, Cobra was legitly bagging and pulling bills, trip shrooms, stars and goldens, now I don't think Cobra said : alright, I got shock in ninth first try Guru'ing it, lets do it another 6 times in a row (even at the end of MH he pulled a ninthplace shock, 3 in total that race, which is sick, yet no hacks) there is just no way a bagger would Guru the shock, also 'hacking' the shock is just way too risky for ftw hackers (2 shocks in play, the hacked and legit one, don't think any bagger would even consider hacking shock, you don't know if the other bagger already pulled it)

Cobra just got very very lucky with the shock this war, but this ain't hacks at all.

Sorry Fabe even i like you but this is bs , 90% o streamwatcher saw and think same it is impossible to get that luck with shocks in 9 and most of them he didnt try to stay in 10 or cnat follow bounty , i bagged over 500 wars suiced in my last 4 years and i cna tell you its hard enough to get shocks in 9 th its rare ( over 3 gps) but 6 or 7 in 9 th after 6 races is impossible and every one who have bagging experience will agree , also most of others agree to everyone on stream was laughing about this bs and also writing something about guru and if someone wanna tell me this was luck i bet 1000 bugs you will never get 6 shocks in 9 after 6 races try it yourselfe and we will see us in 20 years and you say ohh you where right;) it is impossible

Cobrhack.
Nice win AR.

I was going to register myself into this competition.

Blatant hackers everywhere.

As hack allegations and obvious go this takes the all time award, I'd be so pissed off if I was Flow

Fw Monk wrote:
Sorry Fabe even i like you but this is bs , 90% o streamwatcher saw and think same it is impossible to get that luck with shocks in 9 and most of them he didnt try to stay in 10 or cnat follow bounty , i bagged over 500 wars suiced in my last 4 years and i cna tell you its hard enough to get shocks in 9 th its rare ( over 3 gps) but 6 or 7 in 9 th after 6 races is impossible and every one who have bagging experience will agree , also most of others agree to everyone on stream was laughing about this bs and also writing something about guru and if someone wanna tell me this was luck i bet 1000 bugs you will never get 6 shocks in 9 after 6 races try it yourselfe and we will see us in 20 years and you say ohh you where right;) it is impossible

http://gaming-elite.eu.sh2072.evanzo-server.de/g37clanpage/index.php?site=clanwars_details&cwID=3587

Sry Monk but I can tell your from my experience that it is possible to have more then the half of all shocks in 9 AND have all shocks ths whole war. We (ourself) have experience this early this year against BEU. You might say now: yes they hacked aswell, who cares. Your eventually right BUT since we got no hard proof I wont say that.
And further it is not impossible to have a lot of shocks in 9th. Shocks appear in frames, the correct frame(s) triggers the shock and there are way more frames to trigger it in 10 yes but in Theory it is easily possible (but highly) unlikely. I'm not saying your not right but you fail to prove your argument right cause the only thing you do right now is to show us how simple based your argument is. Your feelings dont matter and you present us a lot of them.